During a June 3, 2025 Senate Appropriations Committee hearing, Sen. John Kennedy questioned Education Secretary Linda McMahon about the TRIO and GEAR UP programs in education. He discovers American taxpayers pay trillions to the programs and there are NO audits allowed to see if the programs are actually working.
Senator John Kennedy: Madam Secretary, I want to welcome [YOU]. By the way, I want to ask you about the, the TRIO program that has been mentioned, and its sister program, GEAR UP. we spend $1.858 billion a year on trio.
Ed Sec Linda McMahon: Yes.
Kennedy: That’s $1,580 million a year. IS my math right?
McMahon: I think that’s right, sir.
Kennedy: And how long have we been spending $1,580 million a year on this program?
McMahon: I’m not sure of the total length of time of the program.
Kennedy: More than ten years?
McMahon: Yes.
Kennedy: So that’s over $1 trillion we’ve spent on this program. And, and in this program, this trillion dollars we’ve spent, we give this money, as I appreciate it, to colleges and universities to encourage poor kids to go to college. Is that right?
McMahon: To, to provide some of those kids who have not yet been exposed to what it takes to get ready to go to college?
Kennedy: Okay. To encourage poor kids to go to college. Right?
McMahon: Yes. Okay. And, given that we’ve spent a trillion dollars, how many poor kids who otherwise wouldn’t have gone to college, have gone to college and graduated.
McMahon: A significant number, I would imagine.
Kennedy: How many?
McMahon: I don’t know exactly.
Kennedy: Isn’t that a question we should ask?
McMahon: I think so. I’d be happy to get back to you with that answer. You know the other thing about this . . .
Kennedy: Madam Secretary, I’m not fussing at you. Do we have that number?
McMahon: I don’t think so.
Kennedy: I’m looking. We don’t have it.
McMahon: I don’t think so. Because there is . . .
Kennedy: Well, if, if we were so we’ve spent $1 trillion and we’ve given this money to universities, and they’re supposed to encourage poor kids to go to college, but we don’t know how many poor kids went to college who otherwise wouldn’t have gone to college and graduate. Right.
McMahon: Correct.
Kennedy: Well, what are your audits show?
McMahon: Well, that’s the issue. And I mentioned it when I was.
Kennedy: Are you able to audit?
McMahon: We’re not. We’re not able to audit. And there are constraints against the TRIO program for its accountability. The other issue . . .
Kennedy: Well, But, but, but I’m sorry to cut you off, but I don’t have much time. So, we spent a trillion bucks. We gave it to the colleges. We said encourage poor kids to go to college. We don’t know how many kids went to college because you don’t have the authority to audit. How do you know these universities are not just using the money to operate instead of encouraging poor kids to go to college?
McMahon: I’m not sure.
Kennedy: You don’t know how because you can’t audit.
McMahon: Correct.
Kennedy: You understand hope is not a strategy.
McMahon: Yes, sir.
Kennedy: I mean, if you told the, the average American we just spent $1 trillion of your money and we gave it to colleges and universities and we said, encourage poor kids to go to college, but we don’t know how many kids went to college, who otherwise wouldn’t have gone. And, who graduated? Yeah, Understand the average American would, would ask us what planet we just parachuted in from, right?
McMahon: That’s right. You know senator, if I may, there’s one other issue from the TRIO program. What we have found . . .
Kennedy I’m going to run out of time. Make it fast.
McMahon: Take your time back, then.
Kennedy: Let me ask you a question about our, our, our, our, skirmish with Harvard. And I don’t want to get on the merits. President Trump has said that Harvard is violating federal law, and he’s withholding their money. Is that right?
McMahon: Yes, sir.
Kennedy: And Harvard has responded, We’ve never violated federal law. But if we did, we give you a pinky promise that we won’t do it again. Is that right?
McMahon: Yes.
And then President Trump said, okay. No offense, but, you know, I just want to be sure. So, why doesn’t Harvard. I will give Harvard the authority to appoint a monitor, pick a monitor, pick whomever they want. The federal government has the right to veto the pick. So if they pick their brother in law, that wouldn’t be fair. And Harvard said, no, you just have to trust us. You have to accept our pinky promise. Is that basically what’s going on?
McMahon: Well, and not only that, but Harvard did respond to our request for negotiations with a lawsuit.
Kennedy: Well, but, but if we . . .
McMahon: So we’re in the throes of litigation.
Kennedy: If Harvard would just agree to a monitor, that would solve the problem, wouldn’t it?
McMahon: Might serve part of it that the Provost is what Vice Provost that we’ve asked, that would come on to be one of the monitors on that situation.
Kennedy: I’m way over. I’m sorry, Madam Chair.
